The Marcus Experience (Episode 10) Transcript
The audio version of this episode can be found here.
Hannah: A chronicle of the life of a film director who was reviled for her mysterious invitation.
Jennie: Somebody write this.
Hannah: Hi, and welcome to Somebody Write This, where we use a random plot generator to give us an idea and then we brainstorm how that could be a thing somebody might want to write. I'm Hannah.
Jennie: And I'm Jennie. And to help us with our brainstorming today, we have a guest. Welcome, Denise.
Denise: Hello! Howdy, howdy, howdy.
Hannah: Hi, we're so glad you could join us. Our listeners don't know this, but we actually recorded a full other episode with Denise several weeks ago.
Denise: We're calling that the ghost podcast.
Hannah: It's lost forever. We have two thirds of it still, but we don't have any of my audio. So maybe someday we'll release just two thirds of the podcast and you can all figure out what was being said in the long silences when I was speaking.
Denise: You know what, that's kind of a thing in itself where the audience can just fill in the blanks themselves.
Hannah: Oh my gosh, that'd be so much fun, invite people to fill in their own answers. So we're so glad that you could come back on the podcast and join us because we had such a great time talking with you before. And you said when you left, you were like, "I don't know if you do repeats. But I'd love to come back." And we didn't think it would be right away. But we're happy to have you back.
Denise: That was the universe responding to my request.
Hannah: It was! We don't get to record any of what you did before. But yeah, you get to do this again.
Jennie: We're so happy to hang out with you again.
Hannah: I would love to talk with you a little bit. When we first connected we connected over on the National Novel Writing Month forums, where you and I had both been participating in NaNoWriMo and writing our own novels in a month. And when we first got you connected onto the podcast, you were our first author to have anything published. You're now our second one. However, our first author that we have on the podcast, Jo Cassidy, went the traditional route and queried for all her books and found a publisher. You, Denise, have gone the-- For the most part. I know you've said in the last one that you've done some querying, but you've gone primarily the self publishing route. So tell me first, what made you decide, "I'm just going to publish these myself?"
Denise: So I haven't given up on like doing a traditional publishing route. But there was a part of me that was like... I've always had this kind of, I'll say, entrepreneurial spirit, from like a young age, and I had a friend that was like, "You should self publish, you should self publish." And I was like, "Hard no," for the longest time, but then I had some other friends who were writers as well that were going the self-publishing route and I was like, "You know, I probably could do this." And I'm still learning a lot. Even though I have a couple titles out there, I'm definitely still, again, going back to the entrepreneurial spirit of "just try it." So I would say that's the fun thing about being a self published author. You do something, you test it out, you experiment, you either rinse and repeat or you make some tweaks here and there. So, with that said, I figure whatever I do now, will still be helpful to me as far as my journey, in regards to getting traditionally published, because I definitely haven't given up on that. And in fact, I think one of my New Year's resolutions is to send out so many queries this year. I'm also planning to self publish another novel soon because I think in the grand scheme of things that still looks good from-- If it went, if I ever find that agent and get traditionally published it looks good that-- I feel like me doing my own legwork and wearing all these multiple hats as far as being a writer and any editing I do it, as far as getting service and that out and marketing... I figured all that little bit under my belt will help in the grand scheme of things.
Jennie: Yeah, for sure. Good experience.
Hannah: Yeah, absolutely. One of the many hats you have to wear now as a self published author, which one would you be most happy to take off when going the traditional publishing route? Which one would you be most excited to be like, "Oh, I don't have to do this anymore."
Denise: I'm not going to lie, marketing has been quite the challenge. It's been such a challenge that it's been... You know some authors sometimes have like imposter syndrome and have moments of, like, "My writing sucks, I'll never be like," be like bla bla bla bla bla, insert author name which they idolize. I would say before I got heavy on the business side of being my own small business, because that's what it is when you're a self published author or indie author, you're your own small business. And before I had really delved into the business side, I was a pretty content writer. And then all of a sudden, I started like doing this business angle and having to market it, or marketing, and I was like, "Oh my god, what am I doing what my life? I don't know if this is what I want for myself. I don't know if my writing is that great." And all of a sudden I started experiencing impostor syndrome. So definitely marketing has been a challenge, but then I have tried to change my gears as far as like how I interpret what's going on with it, kind of rewire my brain as far as that marketing aspect so it doesn't become such a total just kill for me but like, "Denise, it's an opportunity. It's an opportunity." And try not to overload myself with too much, because I think that was the other thing. I felt like, you know, I've written so many books, I think it's like-- Some of those will definitely just be drawer books, they might not ever see the light of day.
Hannah: Nobody gets to see those.
Denise: Right. But I've been doing that and then to suddenly be on the business side, it was like, "Okay, I got all these years to catch up." Because I'm seeing some self published authors say, you know, "You should be spending equal amount of time on writing as you do marketing." I was like, "Oh, this scale is definitely imbalanced because I got about 13 novels under my belt and about 10 minutes worth of marketing." So, I think what it was initially, it was putting all that pressure on myself, and now I've kind of pulled back on that, learning that too much too soon can definitely do something to the writerly process. So and that's why I say I think traditional publishing-- Well, you know what, I think that's even changing too. Like, I think they got kind of a hybrid model going on. But where traditional publishing can kind of help with that marketing aspect because they have their hands in different places and they have the bandwidth and teams that are responsible for that piece, whereas I am just one woman wearing 20 hats.
Hannah: Exactly. Last time we spoke, you said that you were hoping to have your next novel out in March or April. Is that still the goal? Tell us a little bit about that one. That's your next, newest one
Denise: The September Project. And I just got the first draft of the cover last week and it looks so amazing. I got to get that game together, up the game. And they actually sent me three different proposals, and it was nice. So this again is another instance of like, "Okay, Denise." I'm still working on doing the editing piece and now I'm also seeing about, instead of just my eyes being the only set of eyes on it, I'm also scoping out to kind of get another editor involved or someone who does edit professionally to have them look at it before I have it get beta read by some friends. So right now I'm in the process of still doing that. I am still marching to the late March timeframe, but then I'm also giving myself permission and be like, "Okay, Denise, last time you got kind of manic with trying to release Montgomery's Diary." You learned something from that, to be okay with pulling back and maybe if you need to push the date out a little bit further forward. So right now, just because I have the tendency to procrastinate, I'm still marching to the order of trying to release The September Project by late March. It's also a birthday gift to myself, but then I also tell myself I am okay that if it needs to go into April it will be all right, which will put it in line to when Montgomery's Diary, my first self published novel, came out in April 2017. So three years ago. Hopefully, like I said, it'll work out. Oh, The September Project. This was my attempt at writing a romance novel. I say attempt because I had many attempts to write a romance novel. In fact, Montgomery's Diary was supposed to be a romance novel, leave your brains at home type book, and it turned into a psychological thriller.
Hannah: Stories just do that sometimes. They go where they want to go.
Denise: They do, they really do, and I let it happen. I definitely haven't been one of these writers that's like, "No, this square peg will fit in this round hole." If this story goes somewhere, let it go where it needs to go. But the short little elevator pitch. The September Project is about Cashmere Watson--
Jennie: Is that somebody's name? I love it.
Denise: Oh thank you, thank you. So she gets blackmailed by her quote-unquote "best friend" into participating in this faux reality show. And what it is, this faux reality show is trying to fit the bill for casting certain people, and they were going to have a plus size girl on the show, like trying to be the first ever reality show that's gonna have this plus size girl, but the person they had pulled out at the last minute, and her best friend who's doing the show running, and this is their first project where they're like at the helm of it is, like, "Okay, I really need to fill this real quick." And so they try to rope in Cashmere and she's not having it. So instead of getting their curvy girl, they get their next vixen for the show. So yeah, that's what it is. I'll improve on that elevator pitch by the time it gets released.
Hannah: That sounds fun though. And this podcast is set to come out on March 19. So if that late March date stays, it should be pretty shortly after.
Denise: And it gives me extra motivation to make sure and march to those orders.
Hannah: Yes, there you go. Awesome. Well, I'm so glad you're able to come on and talk a little bit about your new project and your journey as a writer. And it is time for us to jump into our story. As a a reminder, our plot is, "A chronicle of the life of a film director who was reviled for her mysterious invitation." And usually I hold off on the title, but I actually want to share it right now because it-- I haven't shared this before, but I also generate, just in case we need a little extra fodder for our stories, I also include a random genre for this as well. And the genre plus the title plus the plot to me is calling out the whole story. So the genre of this is sci fi horror, if we choose to go that route, and the title is The Marcus Experience, which is a really fascinating title. So yeah, this definitely gives like an atmosphere and I'm curious to unpack it. And we can obviously disregard the genre at any point. The title does have to stay but the genre can be disregarded if we end up going in a not sci fi horror route.
Denise: Anything in my head can be wired to there.
Hannah: Yes, yes. And yeah, film director reviled for her mysterious invitation, which I guess the immediate question is, is it one she sent out or one she received? I'm assuming one she sent that people reviled her for.
Denise: Right, and the fact that it said-- When you said The Marcus Experience, I immediately thought of Marcus Theaters. And I was like, oh, what if she's part of some sort of legacy from that family? And, you know, she didn't go into the exact theater business, but she became a film director, which is kinda similar. Do you guys have Marcus Theaters?
Hannah: Not out here. We do in Illinois, where I'm from, but not out in California where I ive now.
Denise: Oh, yeah, Midwest, whoop whoop!
Hannah: Yeah, Midwesterners! But yeah, so it's a theater chain, a movie theater chain.
Denise: Yeah, for any listeners that's not familiar, yeah, it is a theater che. And here it had replaced Wehrenberg. But you know, going down that rabbit hole... No, I was thinking, what if like this film director was like some kind of an heiress to that? And in trying to I guess distinguish herself from the family, that even though she ends up being like film director, she's still trying to have some sort of niche so maybe it's also important-- What kind of film director was she? Does she have special films that she did? Did she do like film noir type things?
Jennie: What I'm thinking is maybe she did sci fi horror films. Okay. Instead of our story being that genre, what if that's her genre?
Denise: Yeah, okay. And then to like take it to another level, something about her invitations were somehow, like if you got an invitation from her you, without realizing you were being filmed, you were part of the movie. Part of it was like she wanted to get real reactions from people. So yeah, set up like different things. And so if you got one of these invitations, it was for films she was making. You didn't really know the premise or what was going on. I had another idea but I lost it.
Jennie: Okay. Okay. So like, what if she's doing this thing and one of her little impromptu film experiments get somebody killed or injured?
Denise: Oh, and it becomes the missing film.
Jennie: And that's why she was reviled.
Hannah: Right, yeah, so she's she's doing this new-- The Marcus Experience is this new immersive way of filmmaking, which gets really uncomfortable when your genre is sci fi horror, because it's not just--
Jennie: Like you're not asking for this and suddenly you're getting abducted by aliens.
Denise: And her tagline is, "You heard of 3D and 4D. Here's 5D."`
Hannah: And she has to get more and more-- Actually, here's the question. After the first time they sent out the invitations, the movie happens, it's released. The gimmick is known now. Do people now getting the invitations know that they're going to be part of this? Is it something that she finds new ways to hide it so that people still never know that they're being part of a movie? Or they know that they're part of it, but they don't know what's coming? How much do they know after the first gimmick is revealed?
Jennie: I think it might be like they know they're going to be part of it but they don't know what that entails necessarily, like they think they know. But then they switch it up like how they switch up seasons of competition shows where they're like, "Last time we did it this way." And and there's going to be this whole group of people who want to be involved and so they're always looking for the next invitation. Like, where is it hidden this time? Maybe there's clues.
Denise: And that's what I was gonna say where the film can tie in. So let's say maybe one of the things she does to throw people off is she has created aliases, and there are invitations that go out to like different people, but those aren't the actual thing. So you never know if you're getting the real invitation or one of the copycat ones.
Hannah: Like the placebo group, the control group. Oh, man. Okay, so this is a chronicle of her life. And so is this like a rise and fall kind of thing? Is it like this goes really well and everybody loves it, and then suddenly, something really bad happens and it's like a downward plunge from there?
Jennie: Well, okay. Well, first off, we know since it's a chronicle of her life, her relationship to her family and the family business is obviously important, and how did she get into directing films yourself and what sparked that creativity for her?
Hannah: My initial idea for this, which maybe can still tie in, was that she, again, is making the sort of experimental new-- the next wave of filmmaking and that she wanted to design a theater that specifically would work for this. So like, you know, those theaters were you in and it'll shake you around when the characters are like running or that kind of thing. But maybe way more intense.
Jennie: Plants in the audience, that kind of thing.
Hannah: Yeah. And so maybe she she gets these theaters specifically with the idea of every one is like half film, half audience participation performance piece. And so maybe there's something of that too, maybe that's a piece of her story. Maybe that's how she starts or maybe that's where she goes after people stop accepting her invitations. She just opens a regular theater and then people come in and then are horrified.
Denise: Or maybe-- So one of the things I was thinking about is, going to your point earlier about how does she do this after everyone knows the gimmick, that at some point, she just goes off the radar and goes quiet. And what I was thinking is maybe it hits a point in her career that she's like, "You know what, this is going to be my last one." And it's becoming art imitating life imitating art type situation. Where it's still within that sci fi realm but she's also sort of giving out these invitations and what people don't realize, it's kind of supposed to parody the last bit of her life. It's like she's got that objective with the players-- The people who are getting these invitations that will ultimately be a part of this experience don't realize that part of what's being found is supposed to kind of replicate whatever she believes her last moments of life are going to be.
Hannah: So like she makes her death and her final days her last film
Jennie: I am so glad you brought that up because this ties in totally with the idea I was getting, which is-- So going back to the idea for what she started being reviled for. Were like-- people's lives were getting disturbed and possibly even damaged or ended, right? What if it all turns back on her? And then it does turn into a sci fi horror for us, like where somebody's-- Revenge horror, where they come back, and they're like, "You ruined my life. And I'm insane. And so I'm going to haunt you." And so whatever she planned for her audience for her final thing goes horribly, horribly wrong because of this person that she wronged years before.
Hannah: Or you play with it, you leave it a little ambiguous. So like she dies--
Jennie: And you're like, did she intend that or was that--
Hannah: Two thirds of the way through the film, through this story, and then the remaining third is weird things happening and people first are assuming that she coordinated all this, but this is another one of her stunts. And then people are less sure and less sure and then we can even end on a note where nobody really knows whether this was her or whether she was like-- Was she getting her ideas from real things that she was seeing that were happening?
Jennie: Or was it somebody else taking what she took and--
Hannah: Was somebody else taking it? Yeah, trying to figure out was this her gimmick doing it? Like that could be really fun, if she dies partway through and then it continues on.
Denise: Like Inception. Like at the end when you don't know. Oh my god. Yes. This needs to be an amibiguous ending.
Jennie: Like, even to the point where you wonder-- The whole time up until that point, the person you thought was Ms. Marcus, the film director, was somebody she hired.
Hannah: Yeah, wondering if she was even who she said she was.
Denise: That was one of the things I was thinking about, like when we were saying, "How is she doing this?" And I was like, What if she had an assistant that was helping her for years, and part of the tragedy that happens is this assistant is the one that somehow in the years of helping her and sending out invitations, she becomes involved in one of the projects but then it goes horribly wrong and that's where that-- The assistant to the family or someone who knows what happened in that revenge plot kinda can potentially come along. Because for the most part her filming has been hands off. But then for this one specific one, she lets the assistant get involved. An assistant has helped her over the years, but then some accident occurs.
Jennie: This could be so intriguing. And so dark.
Denise: I think I want to write this. This kind of goes along with this book [inaudible].
Hannah: Oh, man, this is this is fascinating. And it's the kind of thing where you could do lots of-- You could have lots of little vignettes along the way up until it gets to that point where like she dies and you're like, "Okay, what happens now?" And like all the different things that she did that were that were gimmicky and all the different things she tried and how they were received or not. And you could have, yeah, this dark section that almost destroyed her, but then she came back and then she dies. And the last third of it is still just like that, "Now, where does the story go?" And it goes weird.
Jennie: Wow. Okay, so five years from now, we'll have a movie, right? Somebody please make this into a movie,
Denise: Somebody's going to write this, and then someone's gonna film it. And it really will be art imitating life.
Jennie: And then Denise will get an Oscar for screenwriting.
Hannah: And then hire people in your movie theater to come in and do exactly what she did.
Denise: Because movie theaters are all gonna be like, you know, 5-10 years down the road. They're gonna all be in 4D experiences.
Hannah: I think there's possibilities for them to do stuff like that. Oh, gosh, I think where we are now is a good place to pass it off. We're at the point wher we're saying, "Somebody write this."
Jennie: Listeners, we have-- This is-- Do something with this.
Denise: There's so much potential here. And then, you know what, we didn't even go too much down her family, because there might be something there. There might be something there too that's worth exploring, especially like if this is her life's work. And, you know, me going back to she somehow imitating her life with each one of these projects.
Jennie: Right. So there are a lot of details here that could only come out in the finished product really, because--
Hannah: Yeah, I think we're gonna have to turn this over to them. So, listeners, you hear us. We desperately want this.
Jennie: Someone pass this episode to Christopher Nolan or somebody.
Hannah: Yeah. Or write it yourself and be the next Christopher Nolan.
Denise: Yes, definitely.
Hannah: Awesome. Well, yeah, let's close up the the plotting section. But before we end the whole thing we're going to do as we always do and share out a story that we think our listeners should check out. I decided mine as we were talking because the story that this kept bringing to mind was a movie called Synecdoche, New York, which is a very weird movie by Charlie Kaufman, best known for Being John Malkovich and Adaptation. He writes really unusual movies. But Synecdoche, New York is the story of a director, who I think it's a stage play he's making. It ends up he has this big grand vision for it to be-- He opens he buys a warehouse and puts up like replicas of the city essentially, and like hires people to be just improvising actual jobs. And by the end of this, like it keeps getting bigger and bigger to the point where he has essentially just built another city, where people just actually live. It's a very weird movie and a very strange movie. And it just kept reminding me of this, of these sort of avant garde artistic endeavors that get maybe way out of hand. I think it's fascinating. I think it's a very poignant and a very sad and a really, really interesting movie. So I highly recommend Synecdoche, New York. I'm gonna pass it over to Jennie. What do you want the listeners to check out?
Jennie: All right, as a companion suggestion to mine from the last episode, one of the more recent shows coming out-- We're in the middle of season three of The Resident. And if you're into medical dramas, and you're looking for a new one to watch, this one also has the qualities that I enjoy of strong character development and the plots where it's not just like revolving around the medicine, but it's not just revolving around the characters either. It delves a lot into the administration of the hospital and with the politics of say, like, promoting new drugs and that kind of thing. So that's my companion recommendation if you're into medical dramas. Check out The Resident. You'll enjoy it.
Hannah: Denise, what would you like to share with our listeners today?
Denise: I guess I'm gonna go slightly off rail.
Hannah: Do it.
Denise: Well, I'm gonna say one of the movies that I recently watched and really liked-- And I think because it hits a sort of mental health aspect, but it's one of those things where if you're not paying attention to it, it's kind of there. But I watched The Farewell recently, which is supposed to be based on true events, or I should say "is based on an actual lie," and it depicts this story of this, I'm gonna say they are Chinese, I can't exactly remember, but in the story the grandmother is found to have cancer and the family hides it from her throughout the entire movie. They don't tell her that she has cancer, but then they're all sort of reveling from this fact and trying to keep it from her. And then her granddaughter, who was pretty much raised in America, but did spend some time with her before they moved, is having trouble keeping this secret and just, "How's this possible that you guys can do this? In America, you couldn't do that," and this, that and the other. It was such an interesting story, because one of the things I've always said is that the mind is a powerful tool, weapon, or, however you figure it, powerful muscle. And there's something to be said with thoughts or things as far as whatever you put credence into and your belief system. So it was for me from a mental perspective, I liked it, but then also that challenge of, you know, as that character really wanted to say something, but then to do so would be defying the family and going against basically what everyone else has agreed upon, that this is gonna be doing-- And which apparently is something very common that happens. Not here, but that's something that's done like whenever there is some kind of like medical huge illness going on, that family members might keep it from their level. I'm pretty sure it was China, but--
Hannah: I just looked up. It looks like, yeah, it was in China.
Denise: Okay. Oh, thank you. I appreciate it.
Hannah: Yeah, I haven't seen yet. But this has been on my list. I've had a lot of people who are saying that it's their favorite of the year.
Denise: I will say I think I teared up maybe a couple times watching it.
Jennie: Yeah, get some dust in your eye.
Denise: Or my eyes were sweating. That's what it was.
Hannah: Yeah. Awesome. Thank you for that recommendation. And, Denise, before we go, go ahead and let listeners know any social media, any websites. Where can they find you if they want to look up your books and learn more about you?
Denise: Oh, yeah, so check me out on my website, www.denisemarquithjones.com. My Twitter handle is @jonesmarquith. Let's see and I do have a Instagram. I think it's @denisemarquithjones as well. Or on Facebook because everyone has a Facebook, I think at least before it goes away. But I'm definitely on there. So I have two books out right now. So if anyone's interested, Montgomery's Diary, my psychological thriller, and Ned Finally Died, my adult children's book.
Hannah: Cool, and we will put all those links in the podcast description, in the episode description, so that anybody can go and look those up. Thank you so much for coming back to join us again, Denise. We're so happy it worked.
Denise: Thank you, and I look forward to the next time.
Hannah: Absolutely. The next time hopefully it will not be because we had to re-record. Hopefully the next time you come on will not still be your first time on the podcast for our listeners. Awesome. Well, that is our episode. As a reminder, you can find us every other Thursday wherever you get your podcasts.
Jennie: Follow us on Twitter @writethispod and if you've been inspired by this episode, and have questions or comments or a story or a script or anything else, email us at somebodywritethis@gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you.
Hannah: We will be back with another episode in two weeks. We'll see you then.
Jennie: And as they say, it is a hard job to make old monkeys pull faces.
Hannah: A chronicle of the life of a film director who was reviled for her mysterious invitation.
Jennie: Somebody write this.
Hannah: Hi, and welcome to Somebody Write This, where we use a random plot generator to give us an idea and then we brainstorm how that could be a thing somebody might want to write. I'm Hannah.
Jennie: And I'm Jennie. And to help us with our brainstorming today, we have a guest. Welcome, Denise.
Denise: Hello! Howdy, howdy, howdy.
Hannah: Hi, we're so glad you could join us. Our listeners don't know this, but we actually recorded a full other episode with Denise several weeks ago.
Denise: We're calling that the ghost podcast.
Hannah: It's lost forever. We have two thirds of it still, but we don't have any of my audio. So maybe someday we'll release just two thirds of the podcast and you can all figure out what was being said in the long silences when I was speaking.
Denise: You know what, that's kind of a thing in itself where the audience can just fill in the blanks themselves.
Hannah: Oh my gosh, that'd be so much fun, invite people to fill in their own answers. So we're so glad that you could come back on the podcast and join us because we had such a great time talking with you before. And you said when you left, you were like, "I don't know if you do repeats. But I'd love to come back." And we didn't think it would be right away. But we're happy to have you back.
Denise: That was the universe responding to my request.
Hannah: It was! We don't get to record any of what you did before. But yeah, you get to do this again.
Jennie: We're so happy to hang out with you again.
Hannah: I would love to talk with you a little bit. When we first connected we connected over on the National Novel Writing Month forums, where you and I had both been participating in NaNoWriMo and writing our own novels in a month. And when we first got you connected onto the podcast, you were our first author to have anything published. You're now our second one. However, our first author that we have on the podcast, Jo Cassidy, went the traditional route and queried for all her books and found a publisher. You, Denise, have gone the-- For the most part. I know you've said in the last one that you've done some querying, but you've gone primarily the self publishing route. So tell me first, what made you decide, "I'm just going to publish these myself?"
Denise: So I haven't given up on like doing a traditional publishing route. But there was a part of me that was like... I've always had this kind of, I'll say, entrepreneurial spirit, from like a young age, and I had a friend that was like, "You should self publish, you should self publish." And I was like, "Hard no," for the longest time, but then I had some other friends who were writers as well that were going the self-publishing route and I was like, "You know, I probably could do this." And I'm still learning a lot. Even though I have a couple titles out there, I'm definitely still, again, going back to the entrepreneurial spirit of "just try it." So I would say that's the fun thing about being a self published author. You do something, you test it out, you experiment, you either rinse and repeat or you make some tweaks here and there. So, with that said, I figure whatever I do now, will still be helpful to me as far as my journey, in regards to getting traditionally published, because I definitely haven't given up on that. And in fact, I think one of my New Year's resolutions is to send out so many queries this year. I'm also planning to self publish another novel soon because I think in the grand scheme of things that still looks good from-- If it went, if I ever find that agent and get traditionally published it looks good that-- I feel like me doing my own legwork and wearing all these multiple hats as far as being a writer and any editing I do it, as far as getting service and that out and marketing... I figured all that little bit under my belt will help in the grand scheme of things.
Jennie: Yeah, for sure. Good experience.
Hannah: Yeah, absolutely. One of the many hats you have to wear now as a self published author, which one would you be most happy to take off when going the traditional publishing route? Which one would you be most excited to be like, "Oh, I don't have to do this anymore."
Denise: I'm not going to lie, marketing has been quite the challenge. It's been such a challenge that it's been... You know some authors sometimes have like imposter syndrome and have moments of, like, "My writing sucks, I'll never be like," be like bla bla bla bla bla, insert author name which they idolize. I would say before I got heavy on the business side of being my own small business, because that's what it is when you're a self published author or indie author, you're your own small business. And before I had really delved into the business side, I was a pretty content writer. And then all of a sudden, I started like doing this business angle and having to market it, or marketing, and I was like, "Oh my god, what am I doing what my life? I don't know if this is what I want for myself. I don't know if my writing is that great." And all of a sudden I started experiencing impostor syndrome. So definitely marketing has been a challenge, but then I have tried to change my gears as far as like how I interpret what's going on with it, kind of rewire my brain as far as that marketing aspect so it doesn't become such a total just kill for me but like, "Denise, it's an opportunity. It's an opportunity." And try not to overload myself with too much, because I think that was the other thing. I felt like, you know, I've written so many books, I think it's like-- Some of those will definitely just be drawer books, they might not ever see the light of day.
Hannah: Nobody gets to see those.
Denise: Right. But I've been doing that and then to suddenly be on the business side, it was like, "Okay, I got all these years to catch up." Because I'm seeing some self published authors say, you know, "You should be spending equal amount of time on writing as you do marketing." I was like, "Oh, this scale is definitely imbalanced because I got about 13 novels under my belt and about 10 minutes worth of marketing." So, I think what it was initially, it was putting all that pressure on myself, and now I've kind of pulled back on that, learning that too much too soon can definitely do something to the writerly process. So and that's why I say I think traditional publishing-- Well, you know what, I think that's even changing too. Like, I think they got kind of a hybrid model going on. But where traditional publishing can kind of help with that marketing aspect because they have their hands in different places and they have the bandwidth and teams that are responsible for that piece, whereas I am just one woman wearing 20 hats.
Hannah: Exactly. Last time we spoke, you said that you were hoping to have your next novel out in March or April. Is that still the goal? Tell us a little bit about that one. That's your next, newest one
Denise: The September Project. And I just got the first draft of the cover last week and it looks so amazing. I got to get that game together, up the game. And they actually sent me three different proposals, and it was nice. So this again is another instance of like, "Okay, Denise." I'm still working on doing the editing piece and now I'm also seeing about, instead of just my eyes being the only set of eyes on it, I'm also scoping out to kind of get another editor involved or someone who does edit professionally to have them look at it before I have it get beta read by some friends. So right now I'm in the process of still doing that. I am still marching to the late March timeframe, but then I'm also giving myself permission and be like, "Okay, Denise, last time you got kind of manic with trying to release Montgomery's Diary." You learned something from that, to be okay with pulling back and maybe if you need to push the date out a little bit further forward. So right now, just because I have the tendency to procrastinate, I'm still marching to the order of trying to release The September Project by late March. It's also a birthday gift to myself, but then I also tell myself I am okay that if it needs to go into April it will be all right, which will put it in line to when Montgomery's Diary, my first self published novel, came out in April 2017. So three years ago. Hopefully, like I said, it'll work out. Oh, The September Project. This was my attempt at writing a romance novel. I say attempt because I had many attempts to write a romance novel. In fact, Montgomery's Diary was supposed to be a romance novel, leave your brains at home type book, and it turned into a psychological thriller.
Hannah: Stories just do that sometimes. They go where they want to go.
Denise: They do, they really do, and I let it happen. I definitely haven't been one of these writers that's like, "No, this square peg will fit in this round hole." If this story goes somewhere, let it go where it needs to go. But the short little elevator pitch. The September Project is about Cashmere Watson--
Jennie: Is that somebody's name? I love it.
Denise: Oh thank you, thank you. So she gets blackmailed by her quote-unquote "best friend" into participating in this faux reality show. And what it is, this faux reality show is trying to fit the bill for casting certain people, and they were going to have a plus size girl on the show, like trying to be the first ever reality show that's gonna have this plus size girl, but the person they had pulled out at the last minute, and her best friend who's doing the show running, and this is their first project where they're like at the helm of it is, like, "Okay, I really need to fill this real quick." And so they try to rope in Cashmere and she's not having it. So instead of getting their curvy girl, they get their next vixen for the show. So yeah, that's what it is. I'll improve on that elevator pitch by the time it gets released.
Hannah: That sounds fun though. And this podcast is set to come out on March 19. So if that late March date stays, it should be pretty shortly after.
Denise: And it gives me extra motivation to make sure and march to those orders.
Hannah: Yes, there you go. Awesome. Well, I'm so glad you're able to come on and talk a little bit about your new project and your journey as a writer. And it is time for us to jump into our story. As a a reminder, our plot is, "A chronicle of the life of a film director who was reviled for her mysterious invitation." And usually I hold off on the title, but I actually want to share it right now because it-- I haven't shared this before, but I also generate, just in case we need a little extra fodder for our stories, I also include a random genre for this as well. And the genre plus the title plus the plot to me is calling out the whole story. So the genre of this is sci fi horror, if we choose to go that route, and the title is The Marcus Experience, which is a really fascinating title. So yeah, this definitely gives like an atmosphere and I'm curious to unpack it. And we can obviously disregard the genre at any point. The title does have to stay but the genre can be disregarded if we end up going in a not sci fi horror route.
Denise: Anything in my head can be wired to there.
Hannah: Yes, yes. And yeah, film director reviled for her mysterious invitation, which I guess the immediate question is, is it one she sent out or one she received? I'm assuming one she sent that people reviled her for.
Denise: Right, and the fact that it said-- When you said The Marcus Experience, I immediately thought of Marcus Theaters. And I was like, oh, what if she's part of some sort of legacy from that family? And, you know, she didn't go into the exact theater business, but she became a film director, which is kinda similar. Do you guys have Marcus Theaters?
Hannah: Not out here. We do in Illinois, where I'm from, but not out in California where I ive now.
Denise: Oh, yeah, Midwest, whoop whoop!
Hannah: Yeah, Midwesterners! But yeah, so it's a theater chain, a movie theater chain.
Denise: Yeah, for any listeners that's not familiar, yeah, it is a theater che. And here it had replaced Wehrenberg. But you know, going down that rabbit hole... No, I was thinking, what if like this film director was like some kind of an heiress to that? And in trying to I guess distinguish herself from the family, that even though she ends up being like film director, she's still trying to have some sort of niche so maybe it's also important-- What kind of film director was she? Does she have special films that she did? Did she do like film noir type things?
Jennie: What I'm thinking is maybe she did sci fi horror films. Okay. Instead of our story being that genre, what if that's her genre?
Denise: Yeah, okay. And then to like take it to another level, something about her invitations were somehow, like if you got an invitation from her you, without realizing you were being filmed, you were part of the movie. Part of it was like she wanted to get real reactions from people. So yeah, set up like different things. And so if you got one of these invitations, it was for films she was making. You didn't really know the premise or what was going on. I had another idea but I lost it.
Jennie: Okay. Okay. So like, what if she's doing this thing and one of her little impromptu film experiments get somebody killed or injured?
Denise: Oh, and it becomes the missing film.
Jennie: And that's why she was reviled.
Hannah: Right, yeah, so she's she's doing this new-- The Marcus Experience is this new immersive way of filmmaking, which gets really uncomfortable when your genre is sci fi horror, because it's not just--
Jennie: Like you're not asking for this and suddenly you're getting abducted by aliens.
Denise: And her tagline is, "You heard of 3D and 4D. Here's 5D."`
Hannah: And she has to get more and more-- Actually, here's the question. After the first time they sent out the invitations, the movie happens, it's released. The gimmick is known now. Do people now getting the invitations know that they're going to be part of this? Is it something that she finds new ways to hide it so that people still never know that they're being part of a movie? Or they know that they're part of it, but they don't know what's coming? How much do they know after the first gimmick is revealed?
Jennie: I think it might be like they know they're going to be part of it but they don't know what that entails necessarily, like they think they know. But then they switch it up like how they switch up seasons of competition shows where they're like, "Last time we did it this way." And and there's going to be this whole group of people who want to be involved and so they're always looking for the next invitation. Like, where is it hidden this time? Maybe there's clues.
Denise: And that's what I was gonna say where the film can tie in. So let's say maybe one of the things she does to throw people off is she has created aliases, and there are invitations that go out to like different people, but those aren't the actual thing. So you never know if you're getting the real invitation or one of the copycat ones.
Hannah: Like the placebo group, the control group. Oh, man. Okay, so this is a chronicle of her life. And so is this like a rise and fall kind of thing? Is it like this goes really well and everybody loves it, and then suddenly, something really bad happens and it's like a downward plunge from there?
Jennie: Well, okay. Well, first off, we know since it's a chronicle of her life, her relationship to her family and the family business is obviously important, and how did she get into directing films yourself and what sparked that creativity for her?
Hannah: My initial idea for this, which maybe can still tie in, was that she, again, is making the sort of experimental new-- the next wave of filmmaking and that she wanted to design a theater that specifically would work for this. So like, you know, those theaters were you in and it'll shake you around when the characters are like running or that kind of thing. But maybe way more intense.
Jennie: Plants in the audience, that kind of thing.
Hannah: Yeah. And so maybe she she gets these theaters specifically with the idea of every one is like half film, half audience participation performance piece. And so maybe there's something of that too, maybe that's a piece of her story. Maybe that's how she starts or maybe that's where she goes after people stop accepting her invitations. She just opens a regular theater and then people come in and then are horrified.
Denise: Or maybe-- So one of the things I was thinking about is, going to your point earlier about how does she do this after everyone knows the gimmick, that at some point, she just goes off the radar and goes quiet. And what I was thinking is maybe it hits a point in her career that she's like, "You know what, this is going to be my last one." And it's becoming art imitating life imitating art type situation. Where it's still within that sci fi realm but she's also sort of giving out these invitations and what people don't realize, it's kind of supposed to parody the last bit of her life. It's like she's got that objective with the players-- The people who are getting these invitations that will ultimately be a part of this experience don't realize that part of what's being found is supposed to kind of replicate whatever she believes her last moments of life are going to be.
Hannah: So like she makes her death and her final days her last film
Jennie: I am so glad you brought that up because this ties in totally with the idea I was getting, which is-- So going back to the idea for what she started being reviled for. Were like-- people's lives were getting disturbed and possibly even damaged or ended, right? What if it all turns back on her? And then it does turn into a sci fi horror for us, like where somebody's-- Revenge horror, where they come back, and they're like, "You ruined my life. And I'm insane. And so I'm going to haunt you." And so whatever she planned for her audience for her final thing goes horribly, horribly wrong because of this person that she wronged years before.
Hannah: Or you play with it, you leave it a little ambiguous. So like she dies--
Jennie: And you're like, did she intend that or was that--
Hannah: Two thirds of the way through the film, through this story, and then the remaining third is weird things happening and people first are assuming that she coordinated all this, but this is another one of her stunts. And then people are less sure and less sure and then we can even end on a note where nobody really knows whether this was her or whether she was like-- Was she getting her ideas from real things that she was seeing that were happening?
Jennie: Or was it somebody else taking what she took and--
Hannah: Was somebody else taking it? Yeah, trying to figure out was this her gimmick doing it? Like that could be really fun, if she dies partway through and then it continues on.
Denise: Like Inception. Like at the end when you don't know. Oh my god. Yes. This needs to be an amibiguous ending.
Jennie: Like, even to the point where you wonder-- The whole time up until that point, the person you thought was Ms. Marcus, the film director, was somebody she hired.
Hannah: Yeah, wondering if she was even who she said she was.
Denise: That was one of the things I was thinking about, like when we were saying, "How is she doing this?" And I was like, What if she had an assistant that was helping her for years, and part of the tragedy that happens is this assistant is the one that somehow in the years of helping her and sending out invitations, she becomes involved in one of the projects but then it goes horribly wrong and that's where that-- The assistant to the family or someone who knows what happened in that revenge plot kinda can potentially come along. Because for the most part her filming has been hands off. But then for this one specific one, she lets the assistant get involved. An assistant has helped her over the years, but then some accident occurs.
Jennie: This could be so intriguing. And so dark.
Denise: I think I want to write this. This kind of goes along with this book [inaudible].
Hannah: Oh, man, this is this is fascinating. And it's the kind of thing where you could do lots of-- You could have lots of little vignettes along the way up until it gets to that point where like she dies and you're like, "Okay, what happens now?" And like all the different things that she did that were that were gimmicky and all the different things she tried and how they were received or not. And you could have, yeah, this dark section that almost destroyed her, but then she came back and then she dies. And the last third of it is still just like that, "Now, where does the story go?" And it goes weird.
Jennie: Wow. Okay, so five years from now, we'll have a movie, right? Somebody please make this into a movie,
Denise: Somebody's going to write this, and then someone's gonna film it. And it really will be art imitating life.
Jennie: And then Denise will get an Oscar for screenwriting.
Hannah: And then hire people in your movie theater to come in and do exactly what she did.
Denise: Because movie theaters are all gonna be like, you know, 5-10 years down the road. They're gonna all be in 4D experiences.
Hannah: I think there's possibilities for them to do stuff like that. Oh, gosh, I think where we are now is a good place to pass it off. We're at the point wher we're saying, "Somebody write this."
Jennie: Listeners, we have-- This is-- Do something with this.
Denise: There's so much potential here. And then, you know what, we didn't even go too much down her family, because there might be something there. There might be something there too that's worth exploring, especially like if this is her life's work. And, you know, me going back to she somehow imitating her life with each one of these projects.
Jennie: Right. So there are a lot of details here that could only come out in the finished product really, because--
Hannah: Yeah, I think we're gonna have to turn this over to them. So, listeners, you hear us. We desperately want this.
Jennie: Someone pass this episode to Christopher Nolan or somebody.
Hannah: Yeah. Or write it yourself and be the next Christopher Nolan.
Denise: Yes, definitely.
Hannah: Awesome. Well, yeah, let's close up the the plotting section. But before we end the whole thing we're going to do as we always do and share out a story that we think our listeners should check out. I decided mine as we were talking because the story that this kept bringing to mind was a movie called Synecdoche, New York, which is a very weird movie by Charlie Kaufman, best known for Being John Malkovich and Adaptation. He writes really unusual movies. But Synecdoche, New York is the story of a director, who I think it's a stage play he's making. It ends up he has this big grand vision for it to be-- He opens he buys a warehouse and puts up like replicas of the city essentially, and like hires people to be just improvising actual jobs. And by the end of this, like it keeps getting bigger and bigger to the point where he has essentially just built another city, where people just actually live. It's a very weird movie and a very strange movie. And it just kept reminding me of this, of these sort of avant garde artistic endeavors that get maybe way out of hand. I think it's fascinating. I think it's a very poignant and a very sad and a really, really interesting movie. So I highly recommend Synecdoche, New York. I'm gonna pass it over to Jennie. What do you want the listeners to check out?
Jennie: All right, as a companion suggestion to mine from the last episode, one of the more recent shows coming out-- We're in the middle of season three of The Resident. And if you're into medical dramas, and you're looking for a new one to watch, this one also has the qualities that I enjoy of strong character development and the plots where it's not just like revolving around the medicine, but it's not just revolving around the characters either. It delves a lot into the administration of the hospital and with the politics of say, like, promoting new drugs and that kind of thing. So that's my companion recommendation if you're into medical dramas. Check out The Resident. You'll enjoy it.
Hannah: Denise, what would you like to share with our listeners today?
Denise: I guess I'm gonna go slightly off rail.
Hannah: Do it.
Denise: Well, I'm gonna say one of the movies that I recently watched and really liked-- And I think because it hits a sort of mental health aspect, but it's one of those things where if you're not paying attention to it, it's kind of there. But I watched The Farewell recently, which is supposed to be based on true events, or I should say "is based on an actual lie," and it depicts this story of this, I'm gonna say they are Chinese, I can't exactly remember, but in the story the grandmother is found to have cancer and the family hides it from her throughout the entire movie. They don't tell her that she has cancer, but then they're all sort of reveling from this fact and trying to keep it from her. And then her granddaughter, who was pretty much raised in America, but did spend some time with her before they moved, is having trouble keeping this secret and just, "How's this possible that you guys can do this? In America, you couldn't do that," and this, that and the other. It was such an interesting story, because one of the things I've always said is that the mind is a powerful tool, weapon, or, however you figure it, powerful muscle. And there's something to be said with thoughts or things as far as whatever you put credence into and your belief system. So it was for me from a mental perspective, I liked it, but then also that challenge of, you know, as that character really wanted to say something, but then to do so would be defying the family and going against basically what everyone else has agreed upon, that this is gonna be doing-- And which apparently is something very common that happens. Not here, but that's something that's done like whenever there is some kind of like medical huge illness going on, that family members might keep it from their level. I'm pretty sure it was China, but--
Hannah: I just looked up. It looks like, yeah, it was in China.
Denise: Okay. Oh, thank you. I appreciate it.
Hannah: Yeah, I haven't seen yet. But this has been on my list. I've had a lot of people who are saying that it's their favorite of the year.
Denise: I will say I think I teared up maybe a couple times watching it.
Jennie: Yeah, get some dust in your eye.
Denise: Or my eyes were sweating. That's what it was.
Hannah: Yeah. Awesome. Thank you for that recommendation. And, Denise, before we go, go ahead and let listeners know any social media, any websites. Where can they find you if they want to look up your books and learn more about you?
Denise: Oh, yeah, so check me out on my website, www.denisemarquithjones.com. My Twitter handle is @jonesmarquith. Let's see and I do have a Instagram. I think it's @denisemarquithjones as well. Or on Facebook because everyone has a Facebook, I think at least before it goes away. But I'm definitely on there. So I have two books out right now. So if anyone's interested, Montgomery's Diary, my psychological thriller, and Ned Finally Died, my adult children's book.
Hannah: Cool, and we will put all those links in the podcast description, in the episode description, so that anybody can go and look those up. Thank you so much for coming back to join us again, Denise. We're so happy it worked.
Denise: Thank you, and I look forward to the next time.
Hannah: Absolutely. The next time hopefully it will not be because we had to re-record. Hopefully the next time you come on will not still be your first time on the podcast for our listeners. Awesome. Well, that is our episode. As a reminder, you can find us every other Thursday wherever you get your podcasts.
Jennie: Follow us on Twitter @writethispod and if you've been inspired by this episode, and have questions or comments or a story or a script or anything else, email us at somebodywritethis@gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you.
Hannah: We will be back with another episode in two weeks. We'll see you then.
Jennie: And as they say, it is a hard job to make old monkeys pull faces.
Comments
Post a Comment